BrewersCubs • Report: Brewers sign Aramis Ramirez

brewerfanx1 · by **brewerfanx1** on Dec 12th, 2011, 1:05 pm

Report: Brewers to sign Ramirez
By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel

Dec. 12, 2011 11:54 a.m. |(5) Comments

ESPNChicago.com is reporting that the Brewers are going to sign free-agent third baseman Aramis Ramirez to a three-year deal.

This, of course, is no big surprise because as we've been reporting for days, the Brewers have been in pursuit of Ramirez. Whether that pursuit accelerated because of the news of Ryan Braun facing a 50-game suspension for a positive drug test, only the Brewers know.

Ramirez's agent, Paul Kinzer, told me last week at the winter meetings in Dallas that he considered the Brewers "a favorite" to sign the veteran slugger. And he told me that he wanted a three-year deal, so the report makes sense there as well.

Playing for the Cubs last season, Ramirez, 33, batted .306 with 26 homers and 93 RBI in 149 games. What this means for Casey McGehee, I'm not sure. I've heard he might move to first base or possibly be traded. Today is the deadline for teams to tender contracts to players for 2012 and I have been given no indication that the Brewers would non-tender McGehee.

There will be no official announcement until Ramirez passes a physical but I'll see what people are willing to say and pass it along.

[url]
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135448103.html[/url]

dusters · by **dusters** on Dec 12th, 2011, 1:09 pm

I won't comment until I hear the dollar values.

Old Style · by **Old Style** on Dec 12th, 2011, 1:31 pm

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Ramirez 3-year deal with #Brewers expected to be in $34M to $37M range. Numbers not confirmed. Brewers earlier made offer to Rollins. #MLB

dusters · by **dusters** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:09 pm

Hear are my thoughts if the deal is 3 year 34-37 million. Ramirez used to be an elite 3B, compiling 5 straight seasons of a 3.5 of higher WAR player. His last 3 years, he has had some injuries, and compiled WARs of 2.2, .4, and 3.6. He is no longer a good defender, but still has good power.

He will probably have a 2.5-3.0 WAR in '12, but by the final year I doubt he will still be a 2 WAR player. This would put the deal right around market value. But to me, this deal is only worth it if it pushes the Brewers over the top this year, which I don't think will happen. I don't think Ramirez is significantly better than Green, so I don't think the deal was really needed.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:19 pm

"He is no longer a good defender,"

Lets ask the Cub fans what they think. I don't know why you have this take other than assuming age is restricting him.

jammin481 · by **jammin481** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:21 pm

Ramirez isn't better then Green? Based on what?

dusters · by **dusters** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:22 pm

jammin481 wrote:Ramirez isn't better then Green? Based on what?

I said he wasn't SIGNIFICANTLY better than Green. He is player worth about 1.5 more wins than Green next year.

dusters · by **dusters** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:23 pm

RetardRon wrote:
"He is no longer a good defender,"

Lets ask the Cub fans what they think. I don't know why you have this take other than assuming age is restricting him.

I'm just going by defensive statistics, but from what I have seen from him the past few years, he is below average.

jammin481 · by **jammin481** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:30 pm

The thing with Ramirez (and I wanted the Brewers to explore a trade for him last year) is that he's a threat to hit a HR any given at bat. And say what you want about "clutch"...but the dude always seems to hit that needed single or even HR at the opportune time.

Being a Brewers fan in Chicago, I've seen plenty of Ramirez the last few years. And I've actually been at games in Wrigley when he single-handily won the game. Yes he's aging on Defense (better then Fatty), but he's what the Brewers needed in the lineup. Even on off years, he's an RBI machine.

Weeks
Morgan
Braun
Ramirez
Hart
Gamel
Lucroy
Gonzalez

Better infield defense, without a doubt. And if Gamel plays decent, better combined production from 1st and 3rd. I like the move.

shirt · by **shirt** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:49 pm

jammin481 wrote:Ramirez isn't better then Green? Based on what?

Based on our best projections over the next 3 years. I'm sure we will disagree on that, but factor in that 11 to 12 mil could be spent on the bullpen or locking up Grenkie while paying Green 500k a year and it makes the deal look even worse.

Can they keep Green around as a Utility guy so he can take over if Ramirez gets hurt over the next 3 years?

jammin481 wrote:Being a Brewers fan in Chicago, I've seen plenty of Ramirez the last few years. And I've actually been at games in Wrigley when he single-handily won the game. Yes he's aging on Defense

I've seen Ramirez single-handily loose them games too. His defense was terrible even before he came to the Cubs. He probably isn't as bad as Fatty, but from what I've seen its pretty close and he's likely to be in decline.

I don't buy into the whole clutch thing, but I like the optimism.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Dec 12th, 2011, 2:55 pm

shirt wrote:I don't buy into the whole clutch thing, but I like the optimism.

This blows my mind.... Not trying to steer the convo in the wrong direction, but how can you not recognize how pressure affects performance? It's not just sports, in life in general, pressure of the moment will affect your performance one way or the other.

Old Style · by **Old Style** on Dec 12th, 2011, 3:08 pm

RetardRon wrote:
"He is no longer a good defender,"

Lets ask the Cub fans what they think. I don't know why you have this take other than assuming age is restricting him.

I wouldn't call him a bad defender, but he's not as good as he used to be. Most of us suspect it has something to do with his shoulder injury in 2009. If he has another injury like that his career is over, so he might be playing a little more cautiously on defense as an act of self-preservation, but I definitely wouldn't call him bad.

In Miller Park, he should help your offense pretty nicely, and could probably pull off hitting #4 in your lineup behind Braun.

shirt · by **shirt** on Dec 12th, 2011, 3:41 pm

RetardRon wrote:This blows my mind.... Not trying to steer the convo in the wrong direction, but how can you not recognize how pressure affects performance? It's not just sports, in life in general, pressure of the moment will affect your performance one way or the other.

I think I've made it clear, at least in baseball, that I don't really buy players being clutch in general. Yes, guys get locked in more for the playoffs, but in the end playoff numbers or high leverage at bats seem to regress to the player's normal levels over time. Not that they are robots, but professional athletes have been dealing with pressure their entire life. They know that if they are successful 3 out of 10 times they are a pretty good player and if one of those unsuccessful times occurs with the bases loaded most wont, or at least shouldn't, let it bother them.

Besides, Jammin's impression is pretty much the opposite of mine. He was probably at a game where Ramirez hit a walkoff, so in his mind he is clutch. My last memory of Ramirez was an error in his last game as a Cub in the first that opened the scoring in a game they eventually lost.

Its easy, and often inaccurate, to label a player one way or another. Remember when ARod wasn't clutch until he all of a sudden was? Prince was terrible one year with RISP, then the next year he was great. Remember LeBron not being clutch in the last playoffs even though he absolutely locked down DRose? What happens next year when James goes off for 40 a game? Will people say he all of a sudden learned to be clutch? Probably, but I don't think thats accurate at all. Wade played pretty bad in those finals too, yet he is clutch because of how hot he got for their previous finals or for what he did in the final 4. What about when Reese Gaines destroyed him in the biggest regular season college basketball game I've ever seen earlier that year. Most people forget that when their perception changes.

Anyway, I don't expect you or Jammin to agree with me. I don't expect a lot of you to agree with me. But I think a lot of professional players would, just like they shrug off most high leverage failure while fans freak out about it. A lot can happen out of a players control when a ball is traveling long distances at 100 mph. A guy can be calm and in control of his emotions yet still fail or be freaked out and have success. In the end a good player is typically is a good player.

wegotwood · by **wegotwood** on Dec 12th, 2011, 3:50 pm

My take:

You see how no Cubs fans are even remotely sad he's gone? Granted, this has a lot to do with seeing him on bad teams the last 2 years, but that should tell you a lot about what to expect from him. He gets the stigma that he's "lazy" from the way he runs out balls and the way he plays at 3B. He IS NOT as good on defense as he used to be, and I was always one to say that when he was at his peak he was gold glove quality. He will make most of the plays in front of him, but he will get Weeks killed at second base with how slow he is on double play grounders. Range, as I'm sure you are aware, was never his strong suit from the start and hasn't gotten better.

But Aramis can sure hit when he's healthy. But he needs to be healthy. He was injured during spring training in 2010 but was back for opening day. He still hit .207 with a .648 OPS during the first half and that murdered the Cubs chances that year. He was healthy last year and put up his usual numbers. The problem I would be worried about is what the Brewers lineup will look like if Braun is suspended and ARam gets hurt early. Other stats of note that should help you form your opinion of him:

Career line: .284/.342/.500 .842 OPS
Career at Wrigley: .308/.373/.552 .925 OPS
Career at Miller: .270/.325/.503 .829 OPS
OPS under .800 career for March/April/May
Career postseason batting: .194/.199/.433 .732 OPS in 77 AB

If he stays healthy, I would project a line like this for him this year: .290/.335/.500 .835 OPS. If he plays 150 games, you should expect about 25 HR with that.

Scoots0303 · by **Scoots0303** on Dec 12th, 2011, 5:29 pm

Oh, Melvin. $36 million/3 years to a 33 year old third baseman? Good grief. Maybe I've been brainwashed by Ted Thompson, but I don't see how giving a lucrative mutiyear deal to a lazy 33 year old is a good idea.

jammin481 · by **jammin481** on Dec 12th, 2011, 5:29 pm

wegotwood wrote:If he stays healthy, I would project a line like this for him this year: .290/.335/.500 .835 OPS. If he plays 150 games, you should expect about 25 HR with that.

Which is exactly why I like the signing. If we could've gotten this type of production from our 3B last year, the season has a completely different outcome. And if Gamel puts up similar numbers at 1B, this is better combined production then we had last year.

He's an upgrade, instead of a hope. And when you have a few hopes starting in your lineup, that's asking too many stars to align.

cubbiefan009 · by **cubbiefan009** on Dec 12th, 2011, 5:41 pm

Scoots0303 wrote:Oh, Melvin. $36 million/3 years to a 33 year old third baseman? Good grief. Maybe I've been brainwashed by Ted Thompson, but I don't see how giving a lucrative mutiyear deal to a lazy 33 year old is a good idea.

Yeah, I agree with you. Probably money spent that could have been spent elsewhere. Rammy is lazy and is NOT good on defense anymore. After the injury that Old Style hinted on, he hasn't been the same.

UWbrewball · by **UWbrewball** on Dec 12th, 2011, 5:58 pm

He is still going to be above average...slim pickings across the league.

shirt · by **shirt** on Dec 12th, 2011, 6:12 pm

Assuming he plays more than 2/3rds of the games over the next tree years. I don't really care how he compares to the rest of the league so much as how he compares to internal options though.

UWbrewball · by **UWbrewball** on Dec 12th, 2011, 8:37 pm

Levine:

A Ramierz contract 3 yrs 36 million with 4th yr option for both sides.

Report: Brewers sign Aramis Ramirez

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