Wish the Roy Oswalt talk at 8 million per and our budget already over 100 million dollars(with all the callup's and what not, that's just sorta ridiculous. Puts us at about 112 this year probably. Even if it was next year I just don't see the Brewers signing a guy like Oswalt(unless it was the exact same scenario and we lost Greinke and Marcum, in which case, I think a full rebuild would be more wise, trade Hart, Weeks, Axford, Aram(if he has a good year and we pitch in some money), Narveson if he and just rebuild.

Hart was on the table for Madison Bumgardner, one we should have pulled the trigger on , even if it meant adding another lower level bat, this trade was discussed.
Weeks would bring back a kings ransom. Not a HUGE deal, but at top 20 prospect and another top 100.
Greinke/Marcum-Both would bring back similar deals to Weeks, but they'd also include two more prospects the brewers could pick,they could who could be high ceiling type guys, but haven't gotten there yet. Think last years Tyler Thornburg. Not what we gave up for them, but certainly a ton of talent. An elite prospect, another very good prospect and two more guys who, like I said, are low level guys with talent.
Aram-With the depth or lack of depth at 3rd base, if he hits, he'll be moved EASILY. Even if we didn't get much for him, the salary savings would be huge.
K-Rod-Without the big clause, they could move him to a team in need of a closer. Boston is a team that you could see him being traded to.
Agon-isn't going to get you anything more than MAYBE an older lower level guy with some talent and lots of questions, Axford a few years ago.
Axford's in the middle ground. Do you trust a reliever like him long term? Not sure, but like Carlos Marmol a couple years ago, his value is likely as high as it'll get.


I'm torn, because I believe IF we re-sign Greinke, and get roughly what we expect out of our players in the future, and then use the money that'll be freed up to again fill in the pieces with cost effective players, we could compete in the near future at least. WE just need a couple of our prospects to stick.

I also know with 3 first rounders this year and 2 2nd rounders....plus additional money to go out and get international prsopects. =
Our salary could God dowon to the 70's again and we could stockpile cash and have one HELLUVA farm system. Of course our revenues would take a nose dive as well with a team that wasn't good enough to compete.



On the flip side, even if we get off to a rough start and are out of it,we could make a couple moves to save money, save it for next year when the 20 million in tV revenue come in, and hope that a few of the guys we've got in our system develop and we get another frontline guy our of the current crop, and then a #3/4 to go with Greinke/Yo/and whoever develops, we'll be in position to contend for years.



So..our entire future depends on
A-Starting out strong this year; or at LEAST putting together a 85 win team without Braun for 50.
B-More importantly, being able to re-sign Greinke. I'm hoping with Wolf, Marcum and some others, including Greinke's 14 million coming off the books, we just re-sign him, hope that we've got somethign with all the arms we're developing, and then continue to try and put a team capable of winning 90 or so games on the field and get lucky one of these years.


Either way could be interesting. Hart, Weeks, K-Rod, Greinke, Marcum, Wolf, Morgan, Ramirez, combined with all the picks we'll be getting and possibly even Axford, our farm system would rate among the best in the game easily, if not the best, we'd still have good arms on their way up, Braun and Yo to build around and our payroll would be in the 60's to 70's when we know they're capable of spending 100+ million.

Imagine the team we could put together in the next 4-5 years?

And if we keep winning, imagine if we could get lucky and Bradley could become an ace, Thornburg a #3, Jungman a #3, keep the core together, add in the 40-50 million in cap room(if not more). Our future OF is set. Gennnett could take over at 2nd base in 2+ years, Green/Gamel/Lucroy give us our catchers. IF the pitching develops,we're really only looking for 2 impact bats.


Just late night scenario's, and I'm sure BD will give the standard response, as will others, but I think it's worth speculating about.

Was Hart for Madison ever actually on the table or was it just speculation?

I do not think there will be a mid-season sell-off as I doubt we will struggle this year. That's not to say we'll definitely win the division or even make the playoffs, but despite losing Prince I have a hard time seeing us go from 96 wins to less than 90. RR will have learned SOME things I would hope and the addition of K-Rod for the whole season should help prevent some of the bullpen mistakes that plagued us in the first half last year.

The other reason I don't see this happening is that I think it's a scenario that Mark A. tries to avoid like the plague. I don't blame him -- winning puts asses in the seats and though the guys who really understand baseball will understand if we take our lumps for 2 seasons or so in a rebuilding effort, attendance will suffer, and that's no doubt a scary scenario for a franchise setting payroll records every year. Sustaining this kind of payroll is partially dependent on keeping the attendance near 3 million.

Recalling the 2009 season, we were never really in contention at the midpoint nor beyond, and as I remember it we actually did officially make an offer for Roy Halladay at the midpoint which he refused, but shit, we were under .500 or around .500 at the time and just not really a very good team. So that really goes to show, IMO, the model that Mark and Doug try to build in Milwaukee doesn't really support rebuilding projects. It's a reactive approach, which I'm not crazy about, but at least last year it worked. From a business standpoint, the planning of our organization seems to be on more of a year-to-year basis rather than a longer 3-5 year model.

I think we would have to be a good 10 games or so under .500 at the midpoint for them to have a fire sale, and even then maybe not. But even without Braun for 50 I can't see that happening unless absolutely everything went wrong. There's no logical reason that we should go from 96 wins to less than 80 unless shit just goes horribly wrong.

Now I'm all about trying to win a World Series in 3 years rather than trying to win 85 games right now, but I think the organizational philosophy is more supportive of the latter. An 85 win team is still going to be playing meaningful games in September and keeping the fans coming. And keep in mind that if the second wild card is approved for this upcoming season, which is sounds like it very well may be, 85 wins is going to come a lot closer to making it in than it may have in past years.

I'm not at all against trading guys like Hart, Weeks, Marcum, K-Rod, ARam, at the deadline if we're out of it and the price was right. But I can't see us being out of it and even if we were I can't see Mark and Doug daring to sell off guys like Hart and Weeks and basically admit the season is over and risk pissing off a fanbase that is going to have some people still irrationally pissed about why Prince isn't here anymore.

It's impossible to know for sure if it was on the table. Only Sabean and his upper management and Melvin and his would know for certain. Though it was speculated time and time again right around the ASB when Hart sprained an ankle. It was either the Brewers who wanted a C type player thrown in, or the Giants....but it seems to be reported everywhere. So who really can tell.

I do not think there will be a mid-season sell-off as I doubt we will struggle this year. That's not to say we'll definitely win the division or even make the playoffs, but despite losing Prince I have a hard time seeing us go from 96 wins to less than 90. RR will have learned SOME things I would hope and the addition of K-Rod for the whole season should help prevent some of the bullpen mistakes that plagued us in the first half last year.

No, I agree. I'm just saying, what's our best shot to win a World Series? Playing it out and risk losing Grienke? Or if we're saying 6 games out at the ASB and then 6-7 10 days before the trade deadline. WE have a TON of pieces that could turn our system back into an elite system.

Now if we re-sign Greinke, it all changes for me. Because I hope ONE of the 5-6 guys we've got with top of the rotation type stuff develops, and if that happens, you've got the draft picks we'll already have, PLUS Gallardo/Greinke/Fill-in/Peralta/Fiers or fill in.

Funny how our WS chances could literally depend on ONE pitcher. One pitcher among all the talented arms we've got living up to his potential. Lets say Bradley becomes a 2.85 1.05 WHIP 9.5 K 4/1 K/BB ratio type pitcher? Or Jungman strikes out 8 per, but has a 50 pct GB ratio. Or Thornburg just continues to develop. If gives you a glimpse of what Marcum gave you.

The other reason I don't see this happening is that I think it's a scenario that Mark A. tries to avoid like the plague. I don't blame him -- winning puts asses in the seats and though the guys who really understand baseball will understand if we take our lumps for 2 seasons or so in a rebuilding effort, attendance will suffer, and that's no doubt a scary scenario for a franchise setting payroll records every year. Sustaining this kind of payroll is partially dependent on keeping the attendance near 3 million.

If Forbes is right and we made 12 million last year, attendance isn't partially the reason, it's the driving reason. But we also wouldn't have a 105 million dollar payroll if we rebuilt. Or re-loaded.

I'm talking about our salary also dipping down to the 70's as well. Should allow us to build up a fund while we go through the hard times.

Recalling the 2009 season, we were never really in contention at the midpoint nor beyond, and as I remember it we actually did officially make an offer for Roy Halladay at the midpoint which he refused, but shit, we were under .500 or around .500 at the time and just not really a very good team. So that really goes to show, IMO, the model that Mark and Doug try to build in Milwaukee doesn't really support rebuilding projects. It's a reactive approach, which I'm not crazy about, but at least last year it worked. From a business standpoint, the planning of our organization seems to be on more of a year-to-year basis rather than a longer 3-5 year model.

Halladay nixed the deal prior to the season starting, not during. We had an agreement in place reportedly, and we were on his no trade list.

And I don't think there is a large enough sample size for you to make such a claim. In the last 10 years, half the time we've been on a long term plan, the other half a short term plan.

I think we would have to be a good 10 games or so under .500 at the midpoint for them to have a fire sale, and even then maybe not. But even without Braun for 50 I can't see that happening unless absolutely everything went wrong. There's no logical reason that we should go from 96 wins to less than 80 unless shit just goes horribly wrong.

Hey, you're talking to a guy who thinks we'll be better this year than last(I won't predict 96 wins, but I WILL predict a better chance at a WS title). So I agree.


Just a dead board, trying to speculate a little bit.

Now I'm all about trying to win a World Series in 3 years rather than trying to win 85 games right now, but I think the organizational philosophy is more supportive of the latter. An 85 win team is still going to be playing meaningful games in September and keeping the fans coming. And keep in mind that if the second wild card is approved for this upcoming season, which is sounds like it very well may be, 85 wins is going to come a lot closer to making it in than it may have in past years.

I don't agree for one second that Mark A and Melvin are worried about the fans in the seat more than winning. I think they want to win it all and have done what they thought gives us the best shot. I don't think attendance as been a key component.

I'm not at all against trading guys like Hart, Weeks, Marcum, K-Rod, ARam, at the deadline if we're out of it and the price was right. But I can't see us being out of it and even if we were I can't see Mark and Doug daring to sell off guys like Hart and Weeks and basically admit the season is over and risk pissing off a fanbase that is going to have some people still irrationally pissed about why Prince isn't here anymore


So you think they'll pander to the idiots? Most casual fans blame Prince, not the Brewers. I think too often we try to look down on the average fan. Well, I think those who are pissed about Prince leaving are in the minority.

I'm not suggesting they're all about pandering to the idiots. I'm suggesting they'd rather try to build a team that should be playing meaningful baseball in September and have a shot at the playoffs rather than trying to build a 100 win team 3-4 years from now.

I'm not at all suggesting they are more concerned with asses in seats than winning (though that's a chicken/egg argument, the two go hand in hand), but attendance as you noted is the main factor in sustaining that 90-100+ payroll.

Basically I think their organizational philosophy is more concerned with a chance every year rather than a slam dunk winner after a rebuilding period.

And I'm not saying that's bad. Get into the playofs, even as the last seed, give yourself a chance, maybe you're the team that year to get a bounce or two your way and get the best pitching in October.

The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

adambr2 wrote:I'm not suggesting they're all about pandering to the idiots. I'm suggesting they'd rather try to build a team that should be playing meaningful baseball in September and have a shot at the playoffs rather than trying to build a 100 win team 3-4 years from now.

Ahh....I took what you had to say the wrong way apparently. So the attendance to you, while being a factor(even for teams like Detroit where the owner is in his 80's and desperate to win something, attendance matters) isn't the driving force, keeping the team in the race, with the hopes that maybe they could find a way to sneak in the playoffs and then..who knows? That more the gist of what you're saying?


I still stand by the fact that if they let Greinke go, that kinda goes out the window as I don't see this team winning without him. It's Greinke and Gallardo that are going to lead this team to a world series if they should ever see that day.

I'm not at all suggesting they are more concerned with asses in seats than winning (though that's a chicken/egg argument, the two go hand in hand), but attendance as you noted is the main factor in sustaining that 90-100+ payroll.

Yeah, I guess in my theory(which I was a HUUUUGE fan of last year before Greinke) would mean lowering the payroll 20-30 million and then doing a rebuild. Not a full blown rebuild, but pretty close. Again, Greinke signs his name on the dotted line, I think this is all moot.

Basically I think their organizational philosophy is more concerned with a chance every year rather than a slam dunk winner after a rebuilding period.

And I'm not saying that's bad. Get into the playofs, even as the last seed, give yourself a chance, maybe you're the team that year to get a bounce or two your way and get the best pitching in October.

Well the point is, there is no slam dunk. You want to talk about a slam dunk? The Phillies were as much of a slam dunk as you could possibly imagine. So I get your point. You also don't want to become a team that's spending 100 million as it's slipping further and further away only end up like the Astro's a few years ago, selling off their players too late, a terrible team, way under water, unable to keep the little talent they do have because of stupid contracts.


And your last sentence sums it all up. I just hope, not for next year, but in the future, that #3 pitcher can be a guy you can count on in the big games. I have ZERO confidence in soft tossers come October. Zero.

Are there exceptions? Sure. BUT, they're usually left handed, even then they tend to struggle more in the post season than regular season. Hitters are so much more zoned in, and they take so many more pitches that soft tossers who rely on setting guys up with their secondary stuff, ie, pitching backwards, don't do nearly as well.

Which is why I love the draft picks and prospects. Bradley-97, Thornburg-99, Jungman-98, Peralta-98, Scarpetta(not sure what he's maxxed out at, but I'd guess 96 or so).

Now subtract 3-4 MPH at least for their average fastballs, but the point is, these guys can bring it.

I don't want to see a 87 MPH fastball and a change, as good as that change may be, facing the Rangers lineup, the Yankees lineup, the Angels lineup and now the Tigers lineup.

Luckily for us, there is that team in Tampa that might make all those lineups look impotent.

brewerfanx1 wrote:The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

I've come to just 100 pct expect any comment you make to be stupid. I mean, no nicer way to put it. You say it, it'll be dumb.

And that last little part sends that home. They've built this plan for the Brewers pocket books?

They could have SO fucking easily justified going with McGehee again this year to see if he could bounce back, or they could have gone with Green. Instead, what did they do? They signed the top 3rd basemen on the market.



I can't imagine anyone thinks Mark A built this team with his pocket book in his mind. In fact, I wonder what the minority owners think about his payroll this year? Are they alright with it? It looks like it'll be fine as they've been selling tickets at a record rate, but if they hit 105, they're not making money.

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

I've come to just 100 pct expect any comment you make to be stupid. I mean, no nicer way to put it. You say it, it'll be dumb.

And that last little part sends that home. They've built this plan for the Brewers pocket books?

They could have SO fucking easily justified going with McGehee again this year to see if he could bounce back, or they could have gone with Green. Instead, what did they do? They signed the top 3rd basemen on the market.



I can't imagine anyone thinks Mark A built this team with his pocket book in his mind. In fact, I wonder what the minority owners think about his payroll this year? Are they alright with it? It looks like it'll be fine as they've been selling tickets at a record rate, but if they hit 105, they're not making money.

LOL... Fan oh fan, I'm sorry but you are dead wrong on this. For the record, I stated above that Mark A and Doug Melvin want a competitive team for the fans AND for the money, and both are equally important to them. Mark A is a very smart investor and wouldn't invest into something if he didn't make a profit. Period.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that the Brewers are still in the Green when it comes to payroll even when they are at 100-105 million for this year based on a couple comments from Mark A recently and the fact that they were interested in Oswalt at the right price. Also if you know the Brewers upper management like I do, then you would know that they like to keep payroll flexibility for mid-season in case they need to make a move to put them over the top. Doug Melvin has stated this over the last 3-4 years.

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

I've come to just 100 pct expect any comment you make to be stupid. I mean, no nicer way to put it. You say it, it'll be dumb.

And that last little part sends that home. They've built this plan for the Brewers pocket books?

They could have SO fucking easily justified going with McGehee again this year to see if he could bounce back, or they could have gone with Green. Instead, what did they do? They signed the top 3rd basemen on the market.



I can't imagine anyone thinks Mark A built this team with his pocket book in his mind. In fact, I wonder what the minority owners think about his payroll this year? Are they alright with it? It looks like it'll be fine as they've been selling tickets at a record rate, but if they hit 105, they're not making money.

I just don't understand how you can say shit that's this fucking stupid, and then go around berating everyone else on this board for being stupid.

Sure, operating income has decreased to approx. $12 million for 2011, per Forbes. BUT, the value of the Brewers has increased from $200 million in 2005, when Attanasio bought the team, to an estimated $376 million today, an increase of 88%.

So, Fan, you're right. There's no way Attanasio looked at the Brewers, and then looked at the state of Wisconsin, and thought to himself, jeez, there's probably a fairly untapped market for baseball around here. If I just increase payroll a little, and put a decent product on the field, the value of this franchise will probably increase considerably over the next few years.

Yeah, that didn't happen. Instead, Attanasio probably thought, fuck it, I want to win. Let's go all in. My wallet be damned!

horsechukk314 wrote:

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

I've come to just 100 pct expect any comment you make to be stupid. I mean, no nicer way to put it. You say it, it'll be dumb.

And that last little part sends that home. They've built this plan for the Brewers pocket books?

They could have SO fucking easily justified going with McGehee again this year to see if he could bounce back, or they could have gone with Green. Instead, what did they do? They signed the top 3rd basemen on the market.



I can't imagine anyone thinks Mark A built this team with his pocket book in his mind. In fact, I wonder what the minority owners think about his payroll this year? Are they alright with it? It looks like it'll be fine as they've been selling tickets at a record rate, but if they hit 105, they're not making money.

I just don't understand how you can say shit that's this fucking stupid, and then go around berating everyone else on this board for being stupid.

Sure, operating income has decreased to approx. $12 million for 2011, per Forbes. BUT, the value of the Brewers has increased from $200 million in 2005, when Attanasio bought the team, to an estimated $376 million today, an increase of 88%.

So, Fan, you're right. There's no way Attanasio looked at the Brewers, and then looked at the state of Wisconsin, and thought to himself, jeez, there's probably a fairly untapped market for baseball around here. If I just increase payroll a little, and put a decent product on the field, the value of this franchise will probably increase considerably over the next few years.

Yeah, that didn't happen. Instead, Attanasio probably thought, fuck it, I want to win. Let's go all in. My wallet be damned!

Yes you stupid fuck, when Mark Attanasio was 13 years old(when he says it first became a dream of his to own a team) I'm sure it was so he could make money.


And he OBVIOUSLY needed the money running a multi-billion dollar business.


Not to mention Chukk once AGAIN missed the entire fucking point.

Fan174 wrote:

horsechukk314 wrote:

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

I've come to just 100 pct expect any comment you make to be stupid. I mean, no nicer way to put it. You say it, it'll be dumb.

And that last little part sends that home. They've built this plan for the Brewers pocket books?

They could have SO fucking easily justified going with McGehee again this year to see if he could bounce back, or they could have gone with Green. Instead, what did they do? They signed the top 3rd basemen on the market.



I can't imagine anyone thinks Mark A built this team with his pocket book in his mind. In fact, I wonder what the minority owners think about his payroll this year? Are they alright with it? It looks like it'll be fine as they've been selling tickets at a record rate, but if they hit 105, they're not making money.

I just don't understand how you can say shit that's this fucking stupid, and then go around berating everyone else on this board for being stupid.

Sure, operating income has decreased to approx. $12 million for 2011, per Forbes. BUT, the value of the Brewers has increased from $200 million in 2005, when Attanasio bought the team, to an estimated $376 million today, an increase of 88%.

So, Fan, you're right. There's no way Attanasio looked at the Brewers, and then looked at the state of Wisconsin, and thought to himself, jeez, there's probably a fairly untapped market for baseball around here. If I just increase payroll a little, and put a decent product on the field, the value of this franchise will probably increase considerably over the next few years.

Yeah, that didn't happen. Instead, Attanasio probably thought, fuck it, I want to win. Let's go all in. My wallet be damned!

Yes you stupid fuck, when Mark Attanasio was 13 years old(when he says it first became a dream of his to own a team) I'm sure it was so he could make money.


And he OBVIOUSLY needed the money running a multi-billion dollar business.


Not to mention Chukk once AGAIN missed the entire fucking point.

To say that money doesn't play a part in this for Mark A and his investors is very foolish of you. Of course it does.

brewerfanx1 wrote:LOL... Fan oh fan, I'm sorry but you are dead wrong on this. For the record, I stated above that Mark A and Doug Melvin want a competitive team for the fans AND for the money, and both are equally important to them. Mark A is a very smart investor and wouldn't invest into something if he didn't make a profit. Period.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that the Brewers are still in the Green when it comes to payroll even when they are at 100-105 million for this year based on a couple comments from Mark A recently and the fact that they were interested in Oswalt at the right price. Also if you know the Brewers upper management like I do, then you would know that they like to keep payroll flexibility for mid-season in case they need to make a move to put them over the top. Doug Melvin has stated this over the last 3-4 years.

Why is it that I'm consistently fucking surprised when dipshit one and dipshit two miss the point(Chukk, take solice in the fact you're not the biggest disphit here).

1-I think every fucking casual Brewers fan knows they LIKE to keep payroll flexibility. Melvin and Attanasio have said that about 3 dozen fucking times.


2-And this is where you two are really fucking clueless? My point is OBVIOUSLY Mark A is putting WINNING ahead of MAKING MONEY this year.

How is that not obvious to you?

Because especially the last cunt who posted, chukk, he mocked me when I suggested the Brewers would spend 100 million dollars.


3-One last thing, if he was really JUST about making money, don't ya think selling the Brewers and buying the fucking Dodgers might be a LIIIIIIIIIITTTLE bit more profitable? Yeah, we've got a nice new TV deal. It's not 3 billion dollars however.

brewerfanx1 wrote:To say that money doesn't play a part in this for Mark A and his investors is very foolish of you. Of course it does.

To say anything to you is foolish.


You suggested that Mark A's goal was equal part winning, equal part making money.


Only a fucking moron would suggest that given how far over this team has gone from what they wanted their opening day budget to be at. They're already around 100 million which just simply with callup's should put them at 102 million(if you know the front office like I do, you know they budget 2 million for callup's).

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:LOL... Fan oh fan, I'm sorry but you are dead wrong on this. For the record, I stated above that Mark A and Doug Melvin want a competitive team for the fans AND for the money, and both are equally important to them. Mark A is a very smart investor and wouldn't invest into something if he didn't make a profit. Period.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that the Brewers are still in the Green when it comes to payroll even when they are at 100-105 million for this year based on a couple comments from Mark A recently and the fact that they were interested in Oswalt at the right price. Also if you know the Brewers upper management like I do, then you would know that they like to keep payroll flexibility for mid-season in case they need to make a move to put them over the top. Doug Melvin has stated this over the last 3-4 years.

Why is it that I'm consistently fucking surprised when dipshit one and dipshit two miss the point(Chukk, take solice in the fact you're not the biggest disphit here).

1-I think every fucking casual Brewers fan knows they LIKE to keep payroll flexibility. Melvin and Attanasio have said that about 3 dozen fucking times.


2-And this is where you two are really fucking clueless? My point is OBVIOUSLY Mark A is putting WINNING ahead of MAKING MONEY this year.

How is that not obvious to you?

Because especially the last cunt who posted, chukk, he mocked me when I suggested the Brewers would spend 100 million dollars.


3-One last thing, if he was really JUST about making money, don't ya think selling the Brewers and buying the fucking Dodgers might be a LIIIIIIIIIITTTLE bit more profitable? Yeah, we've got a nice new TV deal. It's not 3 billion dollars however.

I never said he bought the team JUST to make money.

Making money and putting a contending team on the field are equally important to Mark A.

Second point I want to make is that based on Mark A most recent comments I doubt the Brewers are in the red right now at 100 million payroll and I'd just assume they still have payroll flexibility for a mid-season acquisition.

Please cite those comments?

Because he claimed they lost money spending LESS money last year and setting records in revenue?



The Brewers are EXACTLY where I predicted they'd be in terms of salary for the last 2-3 years. I said they'd spend 100 million this year and then be capable of spending 110 million NEXT year.

But every comment Mark A's made is how thin the Brewers are stretched.






So AGAIN, and Chukk, this is maybe the part you can read AND comprehend what we're talking about, which had nothing AT-ALL to do with him purchasing the team, Mark Attanasio OBVIOUSLY isn't equally concerned with making money AND winning.

The Brewers could have opened the season with a payroll of 85 million dollars and nobody would have said a word.

I've made my argument. Provide yours without "yeah-huh," and "based on what he said," especially given your propensity to just flat out make up shit like when you claimed Melvin wasn't interested in Ramirez because he called him "just a bat," when he never did anything of the sort.

Fan174 wrote:Please cite those comments?

"We've stretched things more than we ever have this year," said Attanasio, in attendance at "Brewers On Deck."

"Honestly, it doesn't make me nervous. I like challenges like that."

As for whether the revenue stream can support a $100 million payroll going forward,

"It's about putting a higher hurdle in front of our business executives that they've always jumped over, to surmount that hurdle.

"When I first bought the team we had a $27 million payroll and people said, 'Is the payroll going to have a '4' in front of it? They meant $40 million. Now, we've gone way past that. We'll see. The community is incredibly supportive of the team.

"The thing is you want to keep it affordable to go to a game in Miller Park. There's a little bit of a balance there. So, we'll see."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/138292769.html

brewerfanx1 wrote:

Fan174 wrote:Please cite those comments?

"We've stretched things more than we ever have this year," said Attanasio, in attendance at "Brewers On Deck."

"Honestly, it doesn't make me nervous. I like challenges like that."

As for whether the revenue stream can support a $100 million payroll going forward,

"It's about putting a higher hurdle in front of our business executives that they've always jumped over, to surmount that hurdle.

"When I first bought the team we had a $27 million payroll and people said, 'Is the payroll going to have a '4' in front of it? They meant $40 million. Now, we've gone way past that. We'll see. The community is incredibly supportive of the team.

"The thing is you want to keep it affordable to go to a game in Miller Park. There's a little bit of a balance there. So, we'll see."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/138292769.html

Yeah dumbfuck, we all read the article. Nothing in there backs up what you said at all.

Mark A is talking about the future, and you're using that to make a definitive statement on where they're at RIGHT NOW.


Do you really not see a flaw in that logic.

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:

Fan174 wrote:Please cite those comments?

"We've stretched things more than we ever have this year," said Attanasio, in attendance at "Brewers On Deck."

"Honestly, it doesn't make me nervous. I like challenges like that."

As for whether the revenue stream can support a $100 million payroll going forward,

"It's about putting a higher hurdle in front of our business executives that they've always jumped over, to surmount that hurdle.

"When I first bought the team we had a $27 million payroll and people said, 'Is the payroll going to have a '4' in front of it? They meant $40 million. Now, we've gone way past that. We'll see. The community is incredibly supportive of the team.

"The thing is you want to keep it affordable to go to a game in Miller Park. There's a little bit of a balance there. So, we'll see."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/138292769.html

Yeah dumbfuck, we all read the article. Nothing in there backs up what you said at all.

Mark A is talking about the future, and you're using that to make a definitive statement on where they're at RIGHT NOW.


Do you really not see a flaw in that logic.

Mark A doesn't sound like an owner that's losing money at all, does he?

brewerfanx1 wrote:Mark A doesn't sound like an owner that's losing money at all, does he?

Except for when he LITERALLY says, "We lost money last year," and has said he expects the same this year you fucking clown.

Now I don't think they will lose money, BUT the larger fucking point is obviously he could have made a shit load more money this year.

Fan174 wrote:

horsechukk314 wrote:

Fan174 wrote:

brewerfanx1 wrote:The chances of a sell off are slim to none. There's just way too much talent on this team for them to not be competitive, and Mark A and Doug Melvin have built an organizational plan to be competitive every year for the fans and for their pocket books.

I've come to just 100 pct expect any comment you make to be stupid. I mean, no nicer way to put it. You say it, it'll be dumb.

And that last little part sends that home. They've built this plan for the Brewers pocket books?

They could have SO fucking easily justified going with McGehee again this year to see if he could bounce back, or they could have gone with Green. Instead, what did they do? They signed the top 3rd basemen on the market.



I can't imagine anyone thinks Mark A built this team with his pocket book in his mind. In fact, I wonder what the minority owners think about his payroll this year? Are they alright with it? It looks like it'll be fine as they've been selling tickets at a record rate, but if they hit 105, they're not making money.

I just don't understand how you can say shit that's this fucking stupid, and then go around berating everyone else on this board for being stupid.

Sure, operating income has decreased to approx. $12 million for 2011, per Forbes. BUT, the value of the Brewers has increased from $200 million in 2005, when Attanasio bought the team, to an estimated $376 million today, an increase of 88%.

So, Fan, you're right. There's no way Attanasio looked at the Brewers, and then looked at the state of Wisconsin, and thought to himself, jeez, there's probably a fairly untapped market for baseball around here. If I just increase payroll a little, and put a decent product on the field, the value of this franchise will probably increase considerably over the next few years.

Yeah, that didn't happen. Instead, Attanasio probably thought, fuck it, I want to win. Let's go all in. My wallet be damned!

Yes you stupid fuck, when Mark Attanasio was 13 years old(when he says it first became a dream of his to own a team) I'm sure it was so he could make money.


And he OBVIOUSLY needed the money running a multi-billion dollar business.


Not to mention Chukk once AGAIN missed the entire fucking point.

It's really funny that you're so dense. Were you some sort of legacy admission to UW? Or, maybe you do a tour at one of the county branches for a few years prior to your alleged entry?

First, the selection in bold does not indicate that Attanasio dreamed of owning a baseball team for any reason, only that he dreamed of owning one. As you've posted it, minus your injection of opinion, there's equal evidence for either proposition, that he bought the team to win, or that he bought the team to make money. So, go fuck yourself.

Second, he is making money. A lot of fucking money. Like close to $176 million, if he chooses to realize his gain now. And, I'm sure that if the other equity holders started squawking about the reduction in profit over the past 5 years, he would, and possibly has, pointed to the approximately 88% increase in the team's value, and, thereby, their share of the operation.

Finally, I would expect the profit Attanasio takes from the Brewers to increase as their "window" (haha) of potential success begins to close. Attanasio is going to have his cake and eat it too, because he's smart, not like you. When the Brewers are close to competing, he'll take a hit in his annual profit so that he can try to get over the hump. Whatever short term loss he suffers there will be made-up by the increase in value of the franchise, as other potential buyers see that the market can draw 3 million fans, sell tee shirts, etc.

Fan, you should come down to St. Louis. I think it would be a great time for you to break into the local sports talk radio market. I'm sure you'd be able to talk for days and days about how it's a good sign Stan Kroenke is taking steps to make the Rams competitive, as a winning team will be less likely to move to one of the biggest markets in the country.