http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/75379 ... rbitration

Mid point of what both sides submitted.

Bad move by the Brewers. They could have walked in, said "playoffs", rested their case, and won without the arbitrator having heard Marcum's side.

Scoots0303 wrote:Bad move by the Brewers. They could have walked in, said "playoffs", rested their case, and won without the arbitrator having heard Marcum's side.

OK.

Scoots0303 wrote:Bad move by the Brewers. They could have walked in, said "playoffs", rested their case, and won without the arbitrator having heard Marcum's side.

This couldn't be more bullshit if you wanted it to be. Marcum was stellar for the majority of the year and is rewarded for that. He'll pitch well this year too. Contract year. Great move.

Listen, life is short. I love the Brewers. They've essentially been horrible my entire life. When they put together a glorious season like 2011, I don't take it for granted. So when one pitcher completely derails that run, to the division rivals and hated Cardinals, it pisses me off.

Just let me be bitter. That's all I ask.

Scoots0303 wrote:Listen, life is short. I love the Brewers. They've essentially been horrible my entire life. When they put together a glorious season like 2011, I don't take it for granted. So when one pitcher completely derails that run, to the division rivals and hated Cardinals, it pisses me off.

Just let me be bitter. That's all I ask.

Damn, its been over 3 months. I think most of us are basically over it and not so bitter anymore. New season, new hope.

Scoots0303 wrote:Listen, life is short. I love the Brewers. They've essentially been horrible my entire life. When they put together a glorious season like 2011, I don't take it for granted. So when one pitcher completely derails that run, to the division rivals and hated Cardinals, it pisses me off.

Just let me be bitter. That's all I ask.

One pitcher? You can be bitter, but it wasn't one guys fault.

I doubt Scoots was serious about his first post, I'm quite certain that he knows better than to think an arbitrator would decide a case over less than 10 postseason innings and ignore 200 regular season innings.

As far as Marcum in the postseason, Wolf had a bad start too, but Marcum's 14.90 postseason ERA by far took the cake. Wolf at least made up for his with a gem in the NLCS.

Marcum was, however, one of the big reasons that we got there in the first place. I'd stay away from a multi-year deal with him, though.

I'm looking forward to this season very much, but I will never get over how last season ended. Again, if it was the Phillies, I would have been upset, but gotten over it. Not the Cardinals. No way.

And no, I wasn't serious with my first post. But the mere mention of Shaun Marcum's name now makes me want to punch a hole in a wall.

adambr2 wrote:I doubt Scoots was serious about his first post, I'm quite certain that he knows better than to think an arbitrator would decide a case over less than 10 postseason innings and ignore 200 regular season innings.

As far as Marcum in the postseason, Wolf had a bad start too, but Marcum's 14.90 postseason ERA by far took the cake. Wolf at least made up for his with a gem in the NLCS.

Marcum was, however, one of the big reasons that we got there in the first place. I'd stay away from a multi-year deal with him, though.

I don't know... they could show the clip of him throwing his glove up in the air after he gave up the bomb. That pissed me off a lot for some reason. It was just extremely juvenile. I get that he cares, but still, that image was stuck in my head for a week.

That dick. What a fucker. Better than any 3 pitcher we have had in since......... Tell me?

Defense wins championships, right?

Marcum is a hell of a #3, there's really no debating that. I'm not at all upset to have him, I'm upset about giving away 6 cost controlled years at a position of need for potentially the best player we've had since Ryan Braun in exchange for him.

If Marcum was just a starter that we signed in free agency, it would have been a hell of an acquisition. But giving up 6 years of Lawrie for two years of a decent #2/hell of a #3 is a completely lopsided trade.

We win a World Series this year on the strength of our pitching and Marcum plays a big part of it, than its forgiven in my mind but I almost have to root for Lawrie to be a bust now and I think the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

If we signed Greinke to a cost-friendly extension tomorrow and offered him to the Jays straight up for Lawrie, they would probably laugh at it, just to give some perspective on how lopsided two years of Marcum for Lawrie is.

adambr2 wrote:Marcum is a hell of a #3, there's really no debating that. I'm not at all upset to have him, I'm upset about giving away 6 cost controlled years at a position of need for potentially the best player we've had since Ryan Braun in exchange for him.

Lot's of whining in this thread. Look, Marcum was one of the best in not the best SP on the Brewers pitching staff last season. Period. He's not a number 3 SP, he's a number 2, or even number 1 on some other ball clubs. He was a top 20 pitcher in the NL last season, and in the prior season he was a top 20 pitcher in the AL.

We gave up a very good hitter for a very good pitcher, because we needed the pitching more, and Marcum was a huge part in getting us to the playoffs, and allowing us to win the division, and win 96 games. It's really just that simple. I was one who really liked Lawrie, but I'm already over the trade.

I just hope Marcum did some offseason whatever and got over this playoff-itis. He could led us to a 100 win season and choke again against the Cards...it would be all for naught.

UWbrewball wrote:I just hope Marcum did some offseason whatever and got over this playoff-itis. He could led us to a 100 win season and choke again against the Cards...it would be all for naught.

If I remember correctly the Cardinal's SP staff didn't do that well either , so Tony La Russa, brought in his bullpen early to close things down, and it paid off. Perhaps it's RR fault for not doing the same thing. I don't know why the rush to blame Marcum.

Sure, I guess 2 schools of thought are to either blame the guy who couldn't get out of the first fucking inning or blame the guy who let him on the mound.

brewerfanx1 wrote:

adambr2 wrote:Marcum is a hell of a #3, there's really no debating that. I'm not at all upset to have him, I'm upset about giving away 6 cost controlled years at a position of need for potentially the best player we've had since Ryan Braun in exchange for him.

Lot's of whining in this thread. Look, Marcum was one of the best in not the best SP on the Brewers pitching staff last season. Period. He's not a number 3 SP, he's a number 2, or even number 1 on some other ball clubs. He was a top 20 pitcher in the NL last season, and in the prior season he was a top 20 pitcher in the AL.

We gave up a very good hitter for a very good pitcher, because we needed the pitching more, and Marcum was a huge part in getting us to the playoffs, and allowing us to win the division, and win 96 games. It's really just that simple. I was one who really liked Lawrie, but I'm already over the trade.

Marcum was not a top 20 in the NL pitcher last year by any measure other than WHIP. And he is not a #1 on any team. Just because there might be other teams that don't have any good starters does not make him a "#1".

It does not surprise me at all that you would have this opinion because you have very little concept of the value of 2 years of Marcum vs. 6 cost-controlled years of a potential superstar infielder. Especially when we will almost surely lose Marcum after this season with no compensation if he is not signed long-term.

brewerfanx1 wrote:

UWbrewball wrote:I just hope Marcum did some offseason whatever and got over this playoff-itis. He could led us to a 100 win season and choke again against the Cards...it would be all for naught.

If I remember correctly the Cardinal's SP staff didn't do that well either , so Tony La Russa, brought in his bullpen early to close things down, and it paid off. Perhaps it's RR fault for not doing the same thing. I don't know why the rush to blame Marcum.

Who did we have to bring in for him that were better options? Narveson? He didn't do so hot either. He averaged about 3 innings per start in the postseason, so it's not like RR was slow to the trigger. Trying to find excuses for a 14.90 postseason ERA is really grasping at straws.

brewerfanx1 wrote:We gave up a very good hitter for a very good pitcher, because we needed the pitching more, and Marcum was a huge part in getting us to the playoffs, and allowing us to win the division, and win 96 games. It's really just that simple. I was one who really liked Lawrie, but I'm already over the trade.

Sure, but at this point does it really matter if we win 162 games and get ousted in the NLCS?