BrewersCubs • Extension for Greinke talk

adambr2 · by **adambr2** on Jan 29th, 2012, 6:03 pm

It sounds like according to mlbtraderumors.com that Zack is definitely at least willing to work on one right now.

I think this would be the best news we could possibly have for the club right now. First of all, the timing is good, because he's not coming off a Cy Young year, he's coming off two somewhat underperforming years.

And if you get this done assuming at least 4 years, you are guaranteed control of Greinke/Gallardo throughout their prime years through the 2015 season. To me, this is the way we need to build our club and this could really be something that ensures we remain competitive -- this is the reason we won 96 games last year.

As long as you have Greinke and Gallardo you've got two ace types comprising 40% of your rotation. Then if luck would have it, one of Peralta, Thornburg, Jungmann, Bradley, etc. turns into one and then you've got 3. (and if you REALLY get lucky maybe more than one and you're really sitting good).

Gallardo is still a lot younger than people realize at 25, and Greinke at 28 should still have another 5 or so years of his prime. On that note, 5 years sounds about right, and if I'm Melvin, my first offer to Greinke would be 5 years/$75M with a $18M club option for a 6th season. I would start there and probably be willing to go no higher than 5 years/$90M.

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 29th, 2012, 9:31 pm

adambr2 wrote:It sounds like according to mlbtraderumors.com that Zack is definitely at least willing to work on one right now.

I think this would be the best news we could possibly have for the club right now. First of all, the timing is good, because he's not coming off a Cy Young year, he's coming off two somewhat underperforming years.

And if you get this done assuming at least 4 years, you are guaranteed control of Greinke/Gallardo throughout their prime years through the 2015 season. To me, this is the way we need to build our club and this could really be something that ensures we remain competitive -- this is the reason we won 96 games last year.

As long as you have Greinke and Gallardo you've got two ace types comprising 40% of your rotation. Then if luck would have it, one of Peralta, Thornburg, Jungmann, Bradley, etc. turns into one and then you've got 3. (and if you REALLY get lucky maybe more than one and you're really sitting good).

Gallardo is still a lot younger than people realize at 25, and Greinke at 28 should still have another 5 or so years of his prime. On that note, 5 years sounds about right, and if I'm Melvin, my first offer to Greinke would be 5 years/$75M with a $18M club option for a 6th season. I would start there and probably be willing to go no higher than 5 years/$90M.

100 pct agree and it'd change 90 pct of my post about selling off.

If you can guarantee a rotation of Gallardo/Greinke and then 3 from a list of about 7-8 very talented pitchers with #1-2 type upsides, you're in good shape.

And you hit on something else. Our only REAL chance to win one is to pray that Bradley, Thorn, Jugnman, Scarpetta, Peralta etc..etc...become an ace like pitcher and you can finish it off with two very good pitchers, #3/4 types, which is more than reasonable with guys like Narveson(Though he'll be toward the end by then) and guys I've listed, Scarpetta, Fiers, etc..etc..

Fuck, maybe we get lucky and Rogers has a revival later on than most?

WE need two surprises. An ace/#2 to develop along with them, and a guy to step up and out perform expectations.

Have I mentioned I may be the biggest Brooks Hall fan by the way. Time to move him. Nick Bucci is another who's been brought along uber slowly. These guys hit A+ and sometimes really move quickly. I know, I know, 10 years from now, you're going to look back on all the Nick Bucci's and Cody Scarpetta's and most likely think that it was mostly shit and a couple guys started here and there or did whatever.

But every once in a while, you hit it big. Maybe we've got what Toronto did when they had Halladay and Carpenter, or the Giants with Cain and Lincecum?

At the end of the day, if we have 4 pitchers who are #1/2 types with at least 2 legit ace types atop the rotation, and a 5, who, for the sake of the argument is a Fier type guy, a Josh Collemeter, a guy who can get by with a very good change, fantastic command and becomes another Suppan. Not the best he was, nor the worst, but just a good, solid pitcher. A 4.30-ish guy who is durable .

Short of that, I see too much money going to the Jeff Suppan's of the world, Randy Wolf, guys like that.

If we could bite down and pay our rotation;
1-Greinke-18/20(and I WOULD go 5, I think he wins the Cy Young award next year. Yes, I'm all in with Greinke.
2-Gallardo-?? 6-7 million? Not sure what we're looking at, but more than affordable.
3-Bradley-Lets just use him here as he seems to be the guy with the highest ceiling(barely). 450K
4-Peralta-Again, he's rated higher right now, but dominated AAA. 450K
5-Fiers/Narveson(4 million)/Scarpetta/Jungman/THORNBURG(could be the ace(literally) in the hole(not literally unless he's giving it to some bitch once he comes up/Heckathorn(who everyone forgets about, but is a big guy with the potential to strike more guys out with his fastball/Rogers(who still has extraordinary stuff, but pegging him as anything more than an unreliable back of the rotation type guy at this point is foolish. Maybe he develops into great SU man/7thIP, or closer type.

Bottom line, every single one of these guys has the upside of a #3. Some are far more likely to make it, Thorn, Jungman, etc...others while some are longshots obviously.

But I don't ever recall having this much pure talent in terms of pitchers in our system. We've had the big boys who didn't pan out, ie, Nick Neugebauer, JM Gold, etc..etc....

But if you anchor it down with two legit aces which I believe Greinke is, and I believe Gallardo BECAME towars the end of last year when he went on his little run where he had something like 40+ K's in like 25 IP and then pitched very well in the post-season, sans the 1st inning of one game.

brewerfanx1 · by **brewerfanx1** on Jan 29th, 2012, 11:11 pm

MLB.com came out with their rankings and projected Peralta as a #2 for his ceiling, and I believe he was ranked in the top 50, or close to it. FYI.

adambr2 · by **adambr2** on Jan 29th, 2012, 11:15 pm

http://m.jsonline.com/138293544.htm

"Last year there were 5-7 offenses in the National League that were better than ours. Our pitching staff is what kind of carried us. It was the bigger part of our year." -- Greinke

LOL, come on Zack, you're 100% right, but really?

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 30th, 2012, 1:35 am

brewerfanx1 wrote:MLB.com came out with their rankings and projected Peralta as a #2 for his ceiling, and I believe he was ranked in the top 50, or close to it. FYI.

Yeah, but a week late on that one sport.

Had Odorizzi, the guy that Melvin snuck in the trade because he's not any good, a few spots ahead.

There is no QUESTION that is Wily Peralta is as good as he can be, he's an ace. A guy who can throw 98 late in games(didn't do it often, but we're talking best case) with a nasty slider, and a guy who induces GB's like he does is an ace.

Their projections are obviously not best case scenarios. More like, "very good," case scenario's. I've long said I think every single org has several guys who have ace potential.

That there are probably only 15-20 of them says it all.

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 30th, 2012, 1:37 am

adambr2 wrote:http://m.jsonline.com/138293544.htm

"Last year there were 5-7 offenses in the National League that were better than ours. Our pitching staff is what kind of carried us. It was the bigger part of our year." -- Greinke

LOL, come on Zack, you're 100% right, but really?

LOL...it's Greinke. Whaddya expect?

He's like that old high school bully who gets drunk and feels like he needs to make amends to everyone...

tonyei31 · by **tonyei31** on Jan 30th, 2012, 8:14 pm

What I love about Zach is he makes that comment but few remember last year when he was basically telling everyone he was 'sucking'. Guy is a straight shooter. I wish more guys were like him in the league instead of trying to be politically correct.

adambr2 · by **adambr2** on Jan 30th, 2012, 9:42 pm

I do agree with both of you on that, something like that coming from Greinke isn't going to really raise any eyebrows. It's the kind of thing you wouldn't expect to hear from say Gallardo, but with Greinke you just kind of laugh it off. It's just the way he is, and I doubt the team takes any offense.

brewerfanx1 · by **brewerfanx1** on Feb 8th, 2012, 9:58 pm

Melvin responded: “Well, Zack and I have had some conversations. Zack likes it here. He expressed that the fan base was important to him. He expressed that fact that he wants to see that we can be a competitive club year after year after year. That’s something that he wants and desires. The thing with Zack Greinke that I was very impressed with in my conversation was he said he can do better. He said he didn’t feel that he was at the top of his game last year, and this is coming from someone who was 16-6, led the major leagues in strikeouts per nine innings (and) never lost a game at home here in Miller Park. So that’s refreshing to hear from a player when he has that kind of year and he wants to do better.”

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/138959944.html

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/dou ... he-loss-of

bobadgers · by **bobadgers** on Feb 8th, 2012, 10:11 pm

brewerfanx1 wrote:
Melvin responded: “Well, Zack and I have had some conversations. Zack likes it here. He expressed that the fan base was important to him. He expressed that fact that he wants to see that we can be a competitive club year after year after year. That’s something that he wants and desires. The thing with Zack Greinke that I was very impressed with in my conversation was he said he can do better. He said he didn’t feel that he was at the top of his game last year, and this is coming from someone who was 16-6, led the major leagues in strikeouts per nine innings (and) never lost a game at home here in Miller Park. So that’s refreshing to hear from a player when he has that kind of year and he wants to do better.”

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/138959944.html

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/dou ... he-loss-of

Good news. Hopefully the talks go well and they can get him extended.

brewerfanx1 · by **brewerfanx1** on Feb 8th, 2012, 10:23 pm

bobadgers wrote:
brewerfanx1 wrote:
Melvin responded: “Well, Zack and I have had some conversations. Zack likes it here. He expressed that the fan base was important to him. He expressed that fact that he wants to see that we can be a competitive club year after year after year. That’s something that he wants and desires. The thing with Zack Greinke that I was very impressed with in my conversation was he said he can do better. He said he didn’t feel that he was at the top of his game last year, and this is coming from someone who was 16-6, led the major leagues in strikeouts per nine innings (and) never lost a game at home here in Miller Park. So that’s refreshing to hear from a player when he has that kind of year and he wants to do better.”

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/138959944.html

http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/dou ... he-loss-of

Good news. Hopefully the talks go well and they can get him extended.

I agree that would be awesome.

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