All the K's have to be one of the more frustrating things about this team. This team strikes out probably on average 10 times a game. That's a little more than 1/3 of their outs in a game. I'm no statistician, but I assume that means other teams have 1/3 less oppurtunities to commit errors on balls in play. That's got to cost 3-5 wins over the course of a season.

adminnote:Admin Note: Absolutely EPIC thread! Argument between Fan174 and vgswisfan for three pages. This of course only goes along with the other 10-12 threads they brought their argument into.

How can that be? Skalaan said they're taking good approaches at the plate.

i dont mind the k's i'm like ned here. an outs an out and sometimes a k is better than a ground ball. anyways i do think this reflects clearly on skaalen. whatever approaches he is giving them or scouting reports are terrible. our team seems to set the career high mark in k's for just about every opposing pitcher.

nation11 wrote:i dont mind the k's i'm like ned here. an outs an out and sometimes a k is better than a ground ball. anyways i do think this reflects clearly on skaalen. whatever approaches he is giving them or scouting reports are terrible. our team seems to set the career high mark in k's for just about every opposing pitcher.

No actaully I always have heard Skaalen gives the hitters very good scouting reports and is preaching to go to the opposite field. There is only so much a hitting coach can do. We are really in no position to judge whether Skaalen has been doing a good job or not. We just have ALOT of high strike out guys.

On top of that when you put the bat on the ball there is always a small chance that someone on defense will commit an error. If you strike out 13 times, you're just making it easier on the defense, and the chances of errors are less and less the more you strikeout.

I think there's more to it than just "strikeouts don't concern me except with a runner on 3rd & less than two outs".

How are they striking out? Are they falling behind in the count by swinging at bad pitches? Are they swinging at balls on a 3-2 count?

High strikeout totals are more than just "another out" IMO.

bobadgers wrote:I think there's more to it than just "strikeouts don't concern me except with a runner on 3rd & less than two outs".

How are they striking out? Are they falling behind in the count by swinging at bad pitches? Are they swinging at balls on a 3-2 count?

High strikeout totals are more than just "another out" IMO.

I don't know what you mean by "another out." Yeah, if a guy takes a pitcher to 3-2, and then strikes out, that's better than a three pitch K. But, even if you go 3-2, its better to put the ball in play than to K. Making the guy throw five ptiches and then putting it in play is inherently better than making him throw five and getting out on the sixth, no ball in play.

Chukk314 wrote: Making the guy throw five ptiches and then putting it in play is inherently better than making him throw five and getting out on the sixth, no ball in play.

Umm how? If the pitcher throws six pitches each time in this hypothetical situation and each play results in an out does it really make any difference how that out was created?

For the record our inability to draw walks is far more important to our offensive struggles than striking out is.

Chukk314 wrote:All the K's have to be one of the more frustrating things about this team. This team strikes out probably on average 10 times a game. That's a little more than 1/3 of their outs in a game. I'm no statistician, but I assume that means other teams have 1/3 less oppurtunities to commit errors on balls in play. That's got to cost 3-5 wins over the course of a season.

Wait, did you seriously just guess up a stat(the 10 K's per game) then use that stat to run with a couple other stats?

And I wish to hell I knew where that 3-5 wins came from. Even, even if your 10 K's per game was true(it's not), you do realize that they have formula's for this rather than just pulling numbers out of nowhere, right?

This team strikes out about 7 times a game(seriously, 10 times a game? Do you realize how big of a number that is?).

Truth is also that strikeouts don't matter any more than any other out except when a runners on 3rd and less than 2 outs.

This is about the last thing that is really a problem with this team.

RiveraMadness wrote:How can that be? Skalaan said they're taking good approaches at the plate.

Because you can take good approaches and still strike out? This isn't little league anymore where a strikeout's the worst thing in the world.

And by the way, a poor fielder is going to make a play 97-98 pct of the time. So that argument, the "good things can happen" argument is also a little league argument applied to big league baseball.

whats your deal with comparing little league to major league baseball?

The fact is we stikeout too much. Hits can't happen when you swing and miss.

slaket13 wrote:whats your deal with comparing little league to major league baseball?

The fact is we stikeout too much. Hits can't happen when you swing and miss.

When in the hell did I ever compare the two? When did I ever say that the two are similar? In fact, the entire point of my post was that the two are different.

And the fact is we don't walk enough. It doesn't matter one damn big how you get out. It's just such silly LITTLE LEAGUE type logic. There's been article after article written.

But if we're really going to be so simple to get to the "well you can't get a hit if you strikeout" type logic, then gee....guess ya got me! Just thought this was a big more sophisticated. You know, like the difference between different types of outs.

ah....

slaket13 wrote:ah....

Hey, you added more than you did last time!

no I just just didn't want an argument with an obvious apologizer. Thats all.

hers you go buddy
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/statitudes/11/14/strikeouts.bad/index.html

slaket13 wrote:no I just just didn't want an argument with an obvious apologizer. Thats all.

And there it is. Me saying that strikeouts are one of the most overrated aspects of the game means that I MUST be a apologizer.

You're just so simple. I mean, has your baseball idea or knowledge advanced at all since your uncle Jim taught you in little league?

What's really funny is that you think the Brewers strikeouts are their problem. I mean there's really just so many different ways I could go with this, but no matter which one, it comes back to the very simple mindset that strikeouts are any different in 95 pct of the situations from a fly ball or a ground ball. They're just not.

Ignorance Assassin wrote:

slaket13 wrote:no I just just didn't want an argument with an obvious apologizer. Thats all.

And there it is. Me saying that strikeouts are one of the most overrated aspects of the game means that I MUST be a apologizer.

You're just so simple. I mean, has your baseball idea or knowledge advanced at all since your uncle Jim taught you in little league?

What's really funny is that you think the Brewers strikeouts are their problem. I mean there's really just so many different ways I could go with this, but no matter which one, it comes back to the very simple mindset that strikeouts are any different in 95 pct of the situations from a fly ball or a ground ball. They're just not.

once again you bring up little league, what are you fifteen?

slaket13 wrote:here you go buddy, http://www.thediamondangle.com/marasco/opan/kfile.html

Oh, so you ARE in fact going to argue, you're just not going to do it yourself, right?

And what's even better, you're going to use "The Diamond Angle" to do it?

Jesus, go to Google, type in the title of that article and you're going to get about 100,000 articles. Read up. When you've read enough that you can form your own argument, then come back.

sure...I posted the wrong link.

But actually read the new link I posted. Pretty interesting stuff. But your so fucking stubborn to admit I have the facts on my side. I'm right, prove me wrong, jerky. and not with just with your fatass snarmy remarks