BrewersCubs • My Blueprint For Fixing the D.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 18th, 2012, 1:54 pm

1 - The obvious.. Do whatever it takes to get a impact player at LOLB. If you need to trade your 2nd, trade and tag Mouth... whatever... Move up or sign a FA that can get to the god damn QB from the left outside backer position.. Watching Mathews get triple teamed while we generate zero pass rush was infuriating.

2 - Upgrade Safety.. Good news is we have the answer in house already.. It could be #36 or it could be #21.. Either way, Peprah should not be on this team and we still need to draft a S in the mid to late rounds for depth.

3 - Get improvement from DL.. A lot of people are going to want TT to draft an end... IF we continue to play nickle 80% of the time, this is a waste IMO... Only two DL play in that package and I still think the answer is Neal and Raji with two rush specialist at OLB. Those two just need to step up their game.

4 - Replace AJ Hawk.. Smith & Frenchie have both proven they can play just as well as Hawk.. It's nice having the depth, but it comes at a huge price tag with Hawk who is just a guy. That money saved could go a long way toward signing Wells or Clay / Raji as they are soon to be FA's.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 18th, 2012, 2:16 pm

A couple highlight vid of potential OLB's

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7t5CaohIdI[/youtube]

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 18th, 2012, 2:20 pm

I like Lewis... He looks like a maniac... I like that..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS5coCK-qCg[/youtube]

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 22nd, 2012, 2:48 pm

RetardRon wrote:1 - The obvious.. Do whatever it takes to get a impact player at LOLB. If you need to trade your 2nd, trade and tag Mouth... whatever... Move up or sign a FA that can get to the god damn QB from the left outside backer position.. Watching Mathews get triple teamed while we generate zero pass rush was infuriating.

2 - Upgrade Safety.. Good news is we have the answer in house already.. It could be #36 or it could be #21.. Either way, Peprah should not be on this team and we still need to draft a S in the mid to late rounds for depth.

3 - Get improvement from DL.. A lot of people are going to want TT to draft an end... IF we continue to play nickle 80% of the time, this is a waste IMO... Only two DL play in that package and I still think the answer is Neal and Raji with two rush specialist at OLB. Those two just need to step up their game.

4 - Replace AJ Hawk.. Smith & Frenchie have both proven they can play just as well as Hawk.. It's nice having the depth, but it comes at a huge price tag with Hawk who is just a guy. That money saved could go a long way toward signing Wells or Clay / Raji as they are soon to be FA's.

1-Yes, I agree this one is obvious.

2-Peprah's a good backup, and as you said the solution is in house. Either Collins or

3-I disagree with your logic here. I think if we had a better DL, we'd play with 3 DL in the nickel. But since we have run stuffers and not pass rushers, we keep 4 LB'ers on the field.

4-Again, if Hawk was a 3rd round pick, you'd have no issue with him. It'd cost more to cut Hawk next year than to keep him on the roster. It's just not logical in any way to cut him.

betroit02 · by **betroit02** on Jan 22nd, 2012, 3:19 pm

BD is just looking for any way to get rid of aj hawk.

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 22nd, 2012, 3:24 pm

betroit02 wrote:BD is just looking for any way to get rid of aj hawk.

Kinda getting old. And now it's just cutting off your nose in spite of your face.

That's a pretty big cap hit going into next year.

adambr2 · by **adambr2** on Jan 22nd, 2012, 4:22 pm

I really wanted Brooks Reed last year and I wish we would have gone that route in the draft. I think he could have been a guy who made a big difference for the defense this year.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 23rd, 2012, 11:21 am

According to McGinn... Even Hawks teammates think he sucks.. So, Fan, tell me how absurd this is and blay blah blah...

The decision to re-sign Hawk was doubly damaging because it also meant the end of Nick Barnett's career in Green Bay. They played side-by-side from 2006 until Week 4 of 2010 when Barnett broke his wrist. Scouts routinely over the years called Barnett the better player of the two.

Hawk started 15 games, playing almost every down. He finished third in tackles with 109 and didn't have a turnover play. His contract averaged $6.75 million.

It's beyond me how Thompson can come back with Hawk as the starter next season. There even have been whispers among Hawk's teammates. They know better than anyone else how little his game has to offer.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ ... 33503.html

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 23rd, 2012, 5:16 pm

A.J. Hawk: The first of the opponents' 73 passes for 20 yards or more was given up by Hawk on an option route against the Saints' Darren Sproles for 36 yards. Months later, Dom Capers referred to that awful play trying to explain how difficult it was trying to find adequate matchups against some teams. Capers did what he could to hide Hawk in coverage. Still, he gave up five 20-plus passes. Against the run, Hawk was a late reactor who never delivered a smashing hit and often took bad angles or was a step slow in pursuit. He missed 15 tackles, six more than in any of his five previous seasons, and had just 1½ for loss. Thirteen players had at least one turnover play but Hawk didn't have any. He did improve in one area, ranking fourth among the blitzers with one pressure every 9.23 snaps. Grade: D.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/137833488.html

adambr2 · by **adambr2** on Jan 24th, 2012, 1:50 am

I'm actually going to agree with BD on this one. I think we've seen enough of Hawk for years to know he's just a guy and probably easily replaceable and not worth the contract we gave him.

I think we gave him an 8 mil bonus but nothing else is guaranteed so I'm not sure on the cap hit,

I'd say the same if he was a 3rd round pick.

The biggest thing IMO for the D is upgrading the pass rush. If we need to drop Hawk and go forward with Smith and Bishop inside, I don't foresee much of a dropoff.

UWbrewball · by **UWbrewball** on Jan 25th, 2012, 10:27 pm

TT needs to think outside the box here and dabble in FA. Can't turn the worst defense into a top 10 group just through the draft.

betroit02 · by **betroit02** on Jan 25th, 2012, 10:37 pm

UWbrewball wrote:TT needs to think outside the box here and dabble in FA. Can't turn the worst defense into a top 10 group just through the draft.

i dont know, he was basically able to do it by changing to the 3-4 and hiring capers.

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 25th, 2012, 10:39 pm

RetardRon wrote:According to McGinn... Even Hawks teammates think he sucks.. So, Fan, tell me how absurd this is and blay blah blah...

The decision to re-sign Hawk was doubly damaging because it also meant the end of Nick Barnett's career in Green Bay. They played side-by-side from 2006 until Week 4 of 2010 when Barnett broke his wrist. Scouts routinely over the years called Barnett the better player of the two.

Hawk started 15 games, playing almost every down. He finished third in tackles with 109 and didn't have a turnover play. His contract averaged $6.75 million.

It's beyond me how Thompson can come back with Hawk as the starter next season. There even have been whispers among Hawk's teammates. They know better than anyone else how little his game has to offer.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ ... 33503.html

Can you please tell me where the fuck in there it says his teammates think he "sucks?"

I love how you can just pull this shit out of the clear blue, and then cite letting Nick Barnett go as a mistake at a higher salary.

It's almost not worth it with you anymore BD. You ignore years like last year when Hawk was one of the best players on our D, and then you cherry pick this year when our entire defense struggled, and start up your crying again.

Either way, I'm gonna roll with TT on this one. TT or some guy who likely didn't play high school football?

Anyway, it costs more to cut Hawk next year than to pay him.

And a lot of players had down years. Woodson, a CB missed more tackles than Hawk. Now Wood isn't a normal CB, but he, Hawk, had a lot more opputurnities, and fewer missed tackles.

So why is it you ONLY bitch about the same fucking guys all the goddamn time? If you REALLY think Hawk is the problem with this team....well...we'll just disagree.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 26th, 2012, 12:03 pm

It's almost not worth it with you, Fan.. Your the one who takes a position and refuses to budge.

Hawk had one good year in what was essentially a contract year (and I said so several times last year) and several disappointing years. So please don't refer to his typical year as a "down year," for him its just another year. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this shows you either have your head stuck in the sand or are to stubborn to admit when your wrong..

No, he won't be cut this year because of salary.. But his role should be reduced to water boy unless a injury to one of the other 3 MLB's occurs. The following year, he needs to go.

Either way, I'm gonna roll with TT on this one. TT or some guy who likely didn't play high school football?

TT is one of the top GM's out there, but that doesn't mean he has never made a mistake.. Signing Hawk was a mistake.. That money could go to Wells / Finley this year or Jenkins last year. Please don't act like you wouldn't rather have any of those 3.. OF COURSE you will ignore this part of the post though.

shirt · by **shirt** on Jan 26th, 2012, 12:19 pm

Fan174 wrote:Can you please tell me where the fuck in there it says his teammates think he "sucks?"

There even have been whispers among Hawk's teammates. They know better than anyone else how little his game has to offer.

Thats about as much as you are going to get inside a locker room and from a story like that. Sounds like his teammates are disappointed in his play to me.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 26th, 2012, 12:47 pm

shirt wrote:
Fan174 wrote:Can you please tell me where the fuck in there it says his teammates think he "sucks?"

There even have been whispers among Hawk's teammates. They know better than anyone else how little his game has to offer.

Thats about as much as you are going to get inside a locker room and from a story like that. Sounds like his teammates are disappointed in his play to me.

Correct... This is not the Jets locker room and Herm Edwards isn't the coach..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy9NyUKcGQw[/youtube]

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 27th, 2012, 2:22 pm

By the way, I have said, ON HERE THAT Smith MAY allow us to cut bait with Hawk in the future.

But anyone who thinks that's where we need to focus hasn't been paying attention.

MLB'er I think literally is about #5-6 on the list of areas to improve.
1-OLB'er
2-DL pass rusher
3-Safety oppo Burnett, be it Collins or Wood.
4-CB-If Wood moves, it's more pressing, if he doesn't, you still need to plan for the future.
5-DL run stopper. Green and Pickett are getting up there and starting to get useless.
6-More explosive LB'ers.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 27th, 2012, 8:36 pm

Read the post, there are 4 things.. So your the one "focusing" on this one.

Fan174 · by **Fan174** on Jan 28th, 2012, 5:51 am

RetardRon wrote:Read the post, there are 4 things.. So your the one "focusing" on this one.

Because I agree with the other three.

OBVIOUSLY we need a pass rush. Lets say in a perfect world So'oto becomes a good player next year. He can rush the QB a little bit and he certainly has the size and athletic abilty to play the run better than even Matthews.

So if we get a 3-4 end who can get after the QB, that works. If we can get a 3-4 end who is big an athletic but not a pass rusher, but rather a run stuffer who can ocacasionally collapse the pocket, then OLB'er is more important.

But OBVIOUSLY pass rush is #1.

#2-I don't agree with you on Peprah just like I never did on Bush. I agree he can't be starting. I think he, AND Bush are very good in the roles they're suppose to play early onn.

#3-I would add that we should improve at CB. I think that's far more important than safety. If you could get a lockdown safey opposite Williams, you've got two elite corner guys, Shields is up there, and Wood moves to safety. CB is that much more important than S to me. It's more important than any position other than LT and QB.

I just don't see why you feel the need to bring up Hawk who obviously isn't goign anywhere, you post his grade when our grades across the board where low, and the one thing that was a positive was that he got better at rushing the paser(which was obvious).

Don't ask Hawk to do things he's not capable of, and we're fucking fine.

Our nickel D next year SHOULD include

3 DL
3 LB'ers
5 players inthe secondary.
Dime should just add a secnodary player. Hawk can come off the field.

He's a very good read and react MLB'er and he showed it, in particular in games vs the Bears earlier in the year and vs the Giants the 2nd time around when we were stuffing their run.

The difference between he and Bishop is tiny.

And then you want to act like we should have brought back Barnett and made a mistake there. C'mon. Barnett looked to be washed up after serious injuries in a couple year period.

I think your inclusion of Hawk on that list was just another way to start an argument and belabor your point just like you constantly do with Finley.

RetardRon · by **RetardRon** on Jan 29th, 2012, 8:03 pm

Fan174 wrote:And then you want to act like we should have brought back Barnett and made a mistake there. C'mon. Barnett looked to be washed up after serious injuries in a couple year period.

I never said that... I think we should have moved on from both.

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